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Al Forsyth

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Reply with quote  #1 
Okay - so we're on semester break now - - sipping whatever tonic suits you and chilling out BUT some of us are planning our next battle.  Mine incorporated a mop-topian song BUT of course they won't transfer through You-Tube. Thanks Paulo and Richard S. 

I've discussed with Darren about it and some options.  My next would be to check with Michael D. here about uploading mp3 files, but there HAS to be some solution to this. 

Any thoughts?  Other than scrapping the song?  I had this competition laid out for the last time but substituted another one instead.  BOTS's needs access to the music to make it all work.  Shame on Mssrs. McCartney and Starkey for making this happen.

Practicing:

http://www.driveplayer.com/#fileIds=0B8pVGI1QZyQzNzNuZElqT3Rwck0&userId={userId}

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t bedford

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Reply with quote  #2 
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Shame on Mssrs. McCartney and Starkey for making this happen.


Doubtful that Dirk and Barry have a say in Rutles music ownership/copyright. I think you might want to blame Sony Music, and possibly the estate of Michael Jackson.

A little research just now says that Sony announced in March this year that they were buying Michael's shares for full ownership.

So lets put blame where blame is due.

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Larry Franz

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Reply with quote  #3 
Hi Al -- I made a "video" with one of their songs and uploaded it as "unlisted", which means nobody can see it without a link. Perhaps it will stay up since it can't be viewed by the general public. This method might solve the problem for anyone who owns a digital copy of the song (I bought mine for $1.29).

Let's see if it remains available here:

< deleted, since it wasn't universally accessible anyway >

There's another option that involves uploading the video to "the cloud". So I did that too. You might be able to view the video here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-qgiLa2iio0NDlNY2lMekJmVEk/view?usp=sharing

PS -- You could delete the video or make it private after the week's battle was over, and make it available again if necessary for the playoffs.

PPS -- YouTube sent me a note saying the video was blocked about an hour ago. Yet it still plays, no doubt because it's "unlisted". They also warned me that I might lose certain privileges (if this is my last communication, you'll know they got me). So the Google cloud option seems preferable.


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Al Forsyth

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Reply with quote  #4 
Larry,

I use Google Drive and this could be the option or something of the effect. Thank you.  

T, the day that Michael laughed at Paul and said that he would own the rights someday was prophetic.  Now SONY-says.  How do I boycott them for a year or more?  SONY Music? 

Larry, if you end up in the hoosegow, I may be right behind you, but chanting Battle of the Bands.  Hopefully Darren and the posters will bail us out [smile]  Will Aussie dollars work to get us out? 

Does Brian own the rights to HIS songs now after the Murry disaster?

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Lisa G/TS

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Reply with quote  #5 
Hmmm...Larry's clip doesn't even play in my country, yet the two clips from last week that only played here still do. [confused]

Seems the "greed is good" creed never went out of style at Sony. This classic Python could be their anthem:




Let's see if I join Larry in the "Orange is the New Black" club for posting it. [tongue]
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kaycee0101

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Reply with quote  #6 
Hi Al,
I do not know if this would help you or how it could possibly work for your BOTB,  but you can covert youtube videos to mp3 files on your computer. I have done it and saved the mp3's on a micro SD card for my phone. Here is a link to the instructions:




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Al Forsyth

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Reply with quote  #7 
Kaycee,  I'll try it.  It was one of my thoughts - to go mp3.  Some way to keep ALL music available for battles and NOT be restricted by anything.  Thanks.

And Teeny Bopper, Lisa, keep us posted how it plays out in Oh, Canada.  We'll beat out these SONY dudes and keep Paul and Ringo and George and John playing their music.  It's tough to beat out Brian Wilson but "those guys" always gave him a run.

Hope that the YT police haven't got Larry - (he could be on the run). 

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Larry Franz

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Reply with quote  #8 
I also made the mp3 available at this link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-qgiLa2iio0UDNvZUx1WTJTZVE/view?usp=sharing

Lisa -- I hope I don't have to wear orange. It's really not my color. (But first they gotta catch me)
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Darren J. Ray

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Reply with quote  #9 
Okay, before I post my thoughts on this matter, a couple of things....

kaycee0101, welcome aboard. 

Your suggestion of converting YouTube clips to MP3 is why record companies are banning their recordings on YouTube, etc!

I don't believe it will help here. 

You need the Beatles song to be available on YouTube from the start. 

A host could send the MP3s via e-mail to all potential voters, providing all potential voters here are open to being e-mailed. (That hasn't always been the case.)

BUT, as Larry has demonstrated, it is conceivable for a host to make an MP3 of a Beatles (or any act) recording available via a link to a file storage service such as Google Drive providing, of course, that they have the song on MP3 to start with.

If it is accessible to all, and legal, it may be a way around this dilemma. 

In the meantime....
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Darren J. Ray

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Reply with quote  #10 
Okay, firstly, I don’t believe this is a Sony Music/Michael Jackson ownership of Beatles catalogue thing.

My understanding is it’s a worldwide copyright ban by Universal Music Group (UMG), which acquired the EMI recordings in 2012.

The upshot of it is the recorded music of The Beatles is banned on all music and video-sharing websites, which includes YouTube and Vimeo.


The Beatles are just one of many major acts that currently are a no-go zone for us.

Prince, Garth Brooks, Bruce Springsteen and Bob Dylan (both to a lesser extent these days) and, annoyingly for us, The Beach Boys, also have strict limitations on what goes on YouTube, etc.

This is the way their record companies, whether by direction of the artist(s) or not, protect their interests.

Understandably, they want the public to buy their product; not download it for free from the internet, easily done these days.

(Converting YouTube clips to MP3 is precisely why these bans are in place.)

And other acts may follow suit.

It could be the death knell for the Battle eventually, unless we find another accessible-to-all way of playing these tracks.

In the meantime, we need the four clips to be on showcase and for all countries to have access.

As for videos, we can forget about the Beatles at present. Even the two clips of theirs we managed to use in last year’s Gold Play-Off came down shortly afterwards.

Organising that was really hard as they kept being pulled. Now it would be impossible.

Even if you found a clip that was still up, it would most likely be gone by play-offs.

Three Beatles songs have been used thus far this season and, at the moment, I wish they hadn’t because they are all in line for play-offs at the end of the year.

I’m currently listing the clips for later in the year and it’s a pain.

One Beatles clip has been pulled, necessitating the use of a really bad live substitution.

One clip is only viewable on a French website that could come down at any minute.

The other is still on Vimeo which has a history of pulling clips that infringe copyright and banning those who posted it. (I have been a victim of this from the time I was making up clips for hosts whose songs had made play-offs but whose videos had been pulled off YouTube.)

Until we find a way that we are not reliant on video-sharing websites, we cannot use officially released versions of Beatles records so we should consider The Beatles off the table.

We could use live concert versions of their songs, but they will be the versions up for evaluation (and they could be removed at any stage, which would make future voting on them impossible if they made play-offs).


FOR ALL FUTURE HOSTS – please make sure your videos work in all participating countries (currently the UK, the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Germany) before posting your week. The fact that a clip is viewable in your country is no guarantee that it works in another, due to the differing policies of the associated record companies.

For the last few years, and in particular this year, many hosts have sent me a pile of links that I have forwarded to our ‘team’ around the world to give the green light to.

It’s not a problem to do this, except it’s advisable to give me a bit more than a few hours’ notice! A week should be sufficient.

If you don’t want to go through me, I won’t be offended. Just ensure they work!

Last year we even had a week that ended in a three cornered contest for some countries because one of the recordings could not be viewed everywhere.

We also had issues with Marvin Gaye and Dire Straits recordings.

I wish these had been checked off before hosts had posted their weeks.

Some Beatles songs are still currently available on YouTube as bootlegs. You can gauge by the number of views they’ve had how long they’ve been up. I would not use them. They are NOT officially released product and should not be used to represent the master recordings.

I also don’t believe a host should institute their own rule of ‘find your own version of the song and judge from this’.

We’ve never adopted any rule that didn’t receive consensus of the board first. It’s a community thing.

Also, we should not assume all voters are familiar with any song.

Not all participants here are over 50 and already know these records. They have to judge the FOUR clips that are on showcase AS THEY ARE. And we are obliged to NOT USE BOOTLEGS. (We do not want the BOTB shut down over this!)

Grooveshark is no longer our salvation. It closed down in 2015 as part of a settlement between it and UMG, Sony Music and Warner Music.

Currently, I think all hosts just have to go with official records that are on video-sharing websites and ensure they can be viewed by all participating countries in the Battle. Let’s keep this pastime easy and as uncomplicated as possible. Otherwise, it gets unbelievably messy. For the benefit of myself and everyone else, please don’t make this game harder than it is!


Themes are not necessary! And no potential theme should be held so precious that rules can be broken. There are a countless number of songs that CAN be used and are sanctioned by YouTube. Don’t complicate things!

Personally speaking, I’m over most themes anyway. “Let’s use song titles with the word ‘good’ in them. Ahhh, ‘Good Vibrations’ by The Beach Boys, ‘Good Times’ by Hoodoo Gurus, ‘Good Music’ by Joan Jett….gee, this’ll be close.” Okay, that’s an exaggeration, but sometime I do wonder what are people thinking! Some themes are decent – Al’s alphabet one was novel – but there doesn’t have to be a bloody theme!

A week of four songs of the same standard, devoid of a theme, I feel, is much more interesting.

Anyway, that’s just me. I dislike songs bolting into gold play-offs because of uneven weeks. I don’t think it’s fair on hosts who actually give it some thought. And it makes weeks and play-offs predictable and boring.

Some results this year have been foregone conclusions, with the difference between first and last wide; eg, after 22 weeks last year, we had 10 Tin songs with 40 points or more. This year, after 22 weeks, it’s three.

I welcome people’s thoughts. 
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Al Forsyth

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Reply with quote  #11 
Darren,, yes, more or less a save the BOTB movement and as usual, you are all over this.  So many excellent points that you referenced in our "week off" and yes, I have given up on "find your own" scavenger hunt version \.  It is about making the competition a fair game after all isn't it?   I do want to harken back to Chris's "Wow! Great Concert" original notion and was it actually YouTube clips back on the old Blueboard (as remember in five to seven days the posts were gone) or was a list of four song choices?  It began in a quite simple format and I thought that it was but four songs with the artists' name next to it listen as links back then were but drag and drop.  I don't want to use the "find your own" as I had suggested but I will say this - that I almost never vote based on the clip choice, I do vote for the song and thus the artist. 

See, we aren't thinking big picture here as you are with how do you keep the songs up for the finals later this year and that certainly is a new predicament for you on a grander scale.

Napster went down - all those years ago, various file sharing sites came to fore and were gone and YouTube seems to have been around forever now (but wasn't) and what now, the next incarnation of music being available?  Yes, I do still pay for the music that I like but YT helps you find it on occasion.  Royalties for artists - what a concept, huh? 

Some good thoughts from people trying to "solve" the problems. We have to be able to make that change.  Enjoy your week off [wink]

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Cantina Margarita

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Reply with quote  #12 
In my youth there was a kind of "monkey grip" of a human kid's hand for pressing the record and play buttons of a cassette recorder, used for recording radio broadcasts as well as legally purchased black disks (for the richer guys), in order to play it to your sandbox friends whenever you liked (in case of fresh batteries available).
There is open source software today you can do the same with, such as GoldWave, Audacity or whatever you prefer. Play a CD with your 4 featured songs on your PC, select your sound card's stereo mix as the input source, adjust dynamics, record it, and save it as track1234tralala.mp3. Then upload it to your private webspace, right next to your latest holiday pics, and give your fellow sandboxers a link. More difficult with videos, but for audios that might do. Man, I can already feel the 1970s romantic, and I'm counting my pocket money...
(imagine T.Rex, The Sweet, and Bay City Rollers playing here)
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kaycee0101

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Reply with quote  #13 
Hello Darren,
Thank you for your welcome! This is an interesting debate. The whole reason why I have purchased any music as of late is because of youtube and exposure from it.(This is how I became familiar with Brian Wilson and why I am going to his concert in Oct). I also have purchased the 50th ann disk set because of an ad. The companies should not be worried....

Sorry I could not be of help[frown]
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kaycee0101

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Reply with quote  #14 
Oh I forgot the meet/greet that I have for Oct as well![smile]
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kaycee0101

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Reply with quote  #15 
Oh I also forgot the Love and Mercy movie purchase through Amazon...[smile]
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