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Darren J. Ray

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Reply with quote  #31 

Welcome to the chair, Jenny.

And you’ve picked a track that has created much conjecture over the years and, indeed, already this week.

Gold - What’d I Say (The Beach Boys - 1964/1981)

I love obscurities and mysteries and this is both.

It was Saturday, January 18th, 1964.

Sydney Stadium.

It was called the Surfside ’64 tour.

On the bill were Roy Orbison, The Beach Boys, Paul & Paula, The Surfaris and the Joy Boys (local Australian band).

It seems there were three shows that day.

Apparently, in a filmed interview promoter Harry M Miller said Murry Wilson was so unbearable to the Beach Boys on the tour that Brian Wilson punched him.

BUT WHO IS THE LEAD SINGER?

OK……..

I played the track to Brian Wilson in 2005 over the phone and asked him who was singing lead. His response: “That’s me!!!”

I asked Beach Boys historian and author Brad Elliott. Like me, he’d always understood it to be Brian.

I’ve asked Beach Boys historian and author Andrew Doe. He believed it to be Brian. And suggested there is a second sax on the recording.

I asked Probyn Gregory last week. He suspected it was Brian.

There is a clip of Carl biographer Kent Crowley stating it’s Carl singing lead. He says this was confirmed by Stephen McParland (former BB Fan Club president here) who put together the album Brian Wilson Rarities (1981), from which this recording comes.

Witness 25:00…



Thanks to Brad Elliott, I tracked down Stephen McParland (Sydney, Australia) and asked him about it.

His first response to me was astonishing:

I never said it was Carl. Sounds like Brian to me. No eye witness accounts that I know.

So I wrote back and sent him the Crowley clip and the track. Part of his response this time:

Okay, I took the time to listen to it and it could be either Carl or Brian. I don't remember telling Crowley it was Carl. Maybe I did, but I don't recall that. I have never, to my knowledge ever spoken to him….. It really doesn't sound like the Brian I have from that time on demos; and there really is not a lot of Carl around. I wasn't at that concert and anybody I knew who was, is now dead! I remember John Bogie, drummer with the Joy Boys, telling me that he remembered the group doing the song because they really ripped it up. It's the sort of thing Carl would have done more so than Brian. Carl was the "raunchy" one. Always liked Dick Dale and The Del-Tones, whereas Brian was "more musically inclined"…… Yes, the Joy Boys backed the BBS in Australia. Brian has an excellent memory if he is in a situation in which he feels comfortable. The "weird" Brian is 96% a front he developed so as he did not have to deal with things and people. My encounters with him have always been "normal". Marilyn was at my eldest daughter's wedding. Been friends for over 30 years. I gave up on the group (as an oldies band and a band struggling to maintain its relevance) a long time ago. For me, up to 1966 was it.

So I wrote to Col Joye. Neither he nor his brother Keith (on bass) could tell me who sang lead on ‘What’d I Say’.

Says Col:

If there were two Sax’s, one would be Ron Patton of the Joyboys. Patton was a great player. Couldn’t read, but had a great ear. The JOYBOYS played and also backed the show where needed.  they'd had a big hit with Murphy the Surfie, hence had their own spot. I didn't play that tour. Murray rode those boys hard & altercations did arise. They were the meal ticket & did some stupid things. He tried to keep them within the limits…..I spent some time with Roy but only in Sydney.

I looked up ‘Murphy the Surfie’.

The Joy Boys put it out as a single in 1963. It’s written by Norm Day, lead guitarist with the Joy Boys.



Wiki says the Surfaris released the same song in 1964. Perhaps they heard it on this tour.

And there’s Ron Patton on the sax.

Col continues:

The piano player was Bruce Gurr, Ron Patton on Sax, Keith Jacobsen on Bass & Norm day on guitar, and John Bogie on drums. Bruce didn’t take the Farfisa organ (one of the first organ keyboards) He just played piano. I can’t recall whether they got a new Paul for each tour, OR a new Paula. There was only TWO Surfaris as there were only TWO Ventures.The Joyboys made up the rest of the group. The Surfaris had a spring reverb that would make the sound when they kicked it. He tried twice at the stadium but missed both times when that part of the song came up. The revolving stage didn’t help!

The JOYBOYS  sometimes walked on stage & played along with the BB's. Nobody cared. It was that kinda tour. The JOYBOYS backed Roy & the rest of the gang. Roy's next tour for Harry was when Harry called to tell us Roy was coming next week & he wanted the JOYBOYS. We knew he was coming but thought he must be bringing a group with him. Sorry Harry! We're going on tour this Friday & we won't be here. Harry went off his head as he'd told Roy the BOY'S would be there for him, but didn't check with us. We conceded & gave him Ron Patton our Sax man & knew all Roy's program. NOW! That's another story!! And what a story!

Meantime I received this from Probyn:

breaking news-- I have it from Jeff Foskett that both Mike and Carl told him in the '80s that it is Carl on lead.

After all this, I gathered my thoughts…

If forced to pick one, I’d plum for Carl. As I’ve always understood it to be Brian since I first heard it in 1992, that makes it hard. Why would Brian listen to it and tell me it’s Brian?

But, yes, here is another recording of it…..



‘Papa Oom-Mow-Mow’ is two songs before that.

That’s obviously Brian singing lead. And a very different vocal tone to ‘What’d I Say’, two songs after it.

The closest Brian vocal I can find to ‘What’d I Say’ is the voice he employs in ‘You’re So Good to Me’.

But the Carl vocal in ‘Louie, Louie’, recorded within a month of ‘What’d I Say’, is very close to it, too.

Also, in the answering vocals in ‘What’d I Say’,one of them sounds like Brian, at least to me (and, as noted, to DAN).


Obviously, there is very little evidence of Carl lead vocal prior to 1965.

‘Summertime Blues’ is another track I asked Brian about. He told me it was Carl singing lead.

Internet sources are claiming that as David Marks. To my knowledge, I’ve never heard David sing lead, so I’m in the dark there.

I’d love to personally pick Mike’s brain about both tracks!

So I reported all this back to Probyn and he responded:

Here's what I have to date:
Al says it is Carl.
Mike (who was again played the track and asked recently) says it is Carl.
Carl (according to Foskett) says it is Carl.
Since I too distinctly hear Brian in the BG vocals, I throw in my vote with Carl.

Silver - I Can Hear Music (The Beach Boys - 1969)
This is not one of my favourite BB records but it is certainly a vocal treat. Carl’s switch into head voice is divine. Seafaring Mike’s bass in the a cappella section is great too.

Bronze - What’d I Say (Ray Charles - 1959)
I can’t give a record this influential Tin. Both the Beach Boys and the Beatles would play it live. Brian loves it. Paul McCartney loves it – “blew our socks off”. Young Paul bought it when not many in the UK did. George Harrison recalled this record playing all night at a party at art school lecturer Austin Davies’ house in 1960. I would’ve gone home early.

Participant - I Can Hear Music (The Ronettes - 1966)
Good but not their best. 

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GGH

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Reply with quote  #32 
You are awesome Darren! Great sleuthing. It seems like I created quite a stirr. I had to stand up for my man Carl. 😄 I'll never get tired of listening to him sing that song. Such charisma! I'm glad you and the other Beach Boys are on my side. And I love BBs obscurities and mysteries probably as much as you do!
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D.A.N

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Reply with quote  #33 
Well, that was a can of worms.

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GGH

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Reply with quote  #34 
Hopefully that's the end of it and nothing crazy will happen that completely changes everything.
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Professor Dewey

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Reply with quote  #35 
Carl's voice may or may not appear on these recordings.

Robby Gotshall, "Our Prayer/Gee/Heroes and Villains"


PAB Music, "Good Vibrations"


Conrad Tao, "Surf's Up"


Simon Craipeau, "I Get Around"


Bill Frisell, "In My Room"


Vance Perry & Friends, "In My Room"


Adrian Holovaty, "Wonderful"


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Al Forsyth

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Reply with quote  #36 
There's a lot of depth to that recording (What'd I Say - in Sydney).  Detective Ray is all over this now and probably right.  There ARE others on this in some capacity and definitely the sax.  I go with Brian on the vocal.  Why would he not tell it like it was?  It rocks out - that's for sure. 

Back to the battle this week and some MORE Ronettes:

The Wall of Sound was building! 

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Lisa G/TS

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Reply with quote  #37 
Howdy, Jen! Before I hand you my ballot, I gotta get something off my chest.

Quote:
I am so sorry (I just discovered this travesty):
The New Surfsiders - SMiLE Medley/Never Learn Not to Love


t Bedford -- They should release that as "FRoWN". Will that sax player ever learn a new line? I'll supply the cover art, which is a reasonable "selfie" of my response:

Image result for frown

Okay, back to Battle...

GOLD -- Ray Charles, WIS -- Ooh, yeah! Wish I could post the classic 70's SNL skit of John Belushi as Beethoven launching into this (always reminded of that when I hear it), but YouTube only has a poor quality, incomplete clip of it.

SILVER -- Beach Boys, WIS -- Make no mistake, it's a cool curiosity piece I've heard before. They rip it up purty good, but Ray still inches past 'em.

BRONZE -- Beach Boys, I Can Hear Music -- Carl's vocal carries it (so what else is new, huh?).

TIN -- The Ronettes, I Can Hear Music -- Not quite my cuppa (iced) tea.

Great job, Jen! Are you having a good time as this week's hip host?
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t bedford

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Reply with quote  #38 
Lisa, as an apology, I won't post the New Surfsiders "Kokomo/Good Vibrations" single.

But here's the Surfsiders with I Get Around:


Speaking of covers, here's an original Brian song, produced by Brian, and performed by (Donna Reed Show actor) Paul Peterson:


And here's the cover, a local hit in Cleveland by Joey & the Continentals:

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Al Forsyth

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Reply with quote  #39 
t - it can get worse:

Back to Ray - Parts I and II (forgot about this)

Good stuff!

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Lisa G/TS

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Reply with quote  #40 

Quote:
Lisa, as an apology, I won't post the New Surfsiders "Kokomo/Good Vibrations" single.


Too late - played it while I was posting, feeling in a somewhat masochistic "curiosity killed the cat (again)" frame of mind.

Ooph! The New Surfsiders ?!?!? Weren't the originals enough of an audio assault?


Al -- Is it fair to say Petersen could sing no better than he could act? Wasn't - or isn't - he an advocate for child actors' rights these days? Should start with the right not to push their luck singing. [nono]

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Darren J. Ray

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Reply with quote  #41 
Thank you, Jenny. [thumb]

That's Pandora's can of worms, DAN. [biggrin]
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dkmh

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Reply with quote  #42 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren J. Ray
Thank you, Jenny. [thumb]

That's Pandora's can of worms, DAN. [biggrin]


"Super Sleuth" Darren J Ray!!! Gotta love a mystery

Great week first week!

Here are my votes:

GOLD:
I Can Hear Music, Beach Boys
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Carl, crisp and clear

SILVER:
What'd I Say, Beach Boys
💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙
Carl❤️

BRONZE:
What'd I Say, Ray Charles
💛💛💛💛💛💛💛💛💛💛💛
Awesome but ... Carl.

TIN: I Can Hear Music, Ronettes
💜💜💜💜
Beach Boys did it better

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GGH

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Reply with quote  #43 
Glad to hear everyone's votes! The week is almost over and I'd love to hear from more of you. This has been a very interesting and entertaining week. I can't wait to host again! Yes, dkmh, Carl 💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖💖

Attached Images
png IMG_2135.PNG (418.38 KB, 5 views)


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And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
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Lee Marshall

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Reply with quote  #44 
Great info on who sang lead on the mystery song Darren. Thanks for that and thanks too to GGH for including it in the 'battle' this week.  THAT explains why it didn't sound like Brian AT ALL...'cause it wasn't.  That also explains why it didn't remind 'one' of anyone named 'love' playing that wailin' sax...'cause it wasn't.

GREAT 'battle' week!!!  Way to GO Jenny.  You ROCK!!!  [You do too Darren... ... ...in a fellas can rock as well kind of way... ... ...[biggrin]]
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David W

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Reply with quote  #45 
My votes :

Always love these girl groups so I'm going

Gold-Ronettes
Silver-Ray Charles
Bronze- BB's I can Hear Music
Tin BBs-What'd I Say

Must admit I hadnt heard of Ariana Grande until the Manchester bomb tragedy but since the fund raising concert last week , her song "One Last Time" has become an "earworm" especially when the crowd sing the lyrics .



This is the Musicality choir singing the same song , great key change in this one .


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