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Steven

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Reply with quote  #16 
I could be mistaken, but I think the Fluxus group incorporated chance more than Brian would.  Brian opened up on Pet Sounds and Smile, it was a continuum, but his ordering and splicing was careful and deliberate.  He is closer to Glenn Gould.  Both are musicians.  Both are meticulous.  Both hear a beautiful sound.  Both unite contrapuntal bits in a way that made a whole that was greater than the sum of its parts.  In contrast, a Fluxus musician or artist might find freedom in ordering bits randomly by chance (which reduces human communication, something neither Brian nor Glenn Gould would want to do).  For example, John Cage used the I Ching and pure chance to compose music, although John Cage brilliantly used other means as well.  John Cage's music is wonderful to think about but Brian's music is wonderful to hear.  Moreover, Brian loves the music of Bach and Bach, although the greatest improvisor of his time (and maybe of all time), is not random. 

I doubt that Brian was familiar with the wonderful mathematical logician Kurt Godel, but Brian would find Godel's work very interesting.     
 
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paul g adsett

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Reply with quote  #17 
steven
- that bach chap certainly wasn't averse to recycling his themes.
and has a somewhat mathematical precision to what might be improvising.
some might say that bach's work is more of a cerebral activity than emotional one.
taking it in a jazz direction, jacques loussier was able to give it a improvisational swing.
gould moved the expression away from the normal and headed out into his own headspace.

and,
i now know why bw left 'smile' unfinished at the time.
he patently adhered to gödel's incompleteness theorem
- though i couldn't prove this...

axiomatically yours,
cheers



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paul g adsett

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Reply with quote  #18 
al
stevie k was signed to brother right early on,
so was part of that whole period of change in the world of the bb's.
he wrote with dennis in time to get credits on 1968's 'friends' album
and carl produced mr k's zarasthustra & thelebius recording 'leaves of grass 
before brian and stevie started dabbling (artistically) together,
i think, around the turn into 1969,
which led into the recordings, beginning with 'america i know you'
in august '69,
that would become the 'a world of peace must come' album
(which only saw release in 2008
and, to my extreme joy, i found m'self involved in its hush hush preparation and revelation).
so, this was after 'smile' had been abandoned,
after vdp,
but right when bw had dropped out of the pressures of popdom recording etc
and was indulging in more experimental, decidedly uncommercial, stuff,
and the bb's were transmogrifying away from the striped shirts
into their more outré couture.
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Al Forsyth

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Reply with quote  #19 
Steven,

Brian was VERY precise in what he did and wanted but thinking that just maybe some of the substances allowed for chance to become a part of all of this on Smile.  It seemed as though this was something completely and artistically different.  Far past Pet Sounds.  

Bach, yes, precise but even he would go out there when he could.  Brian captured Bach on Our Prayer with the part writing. 
http://vandykemusic.weebly.com/uploads/4/3/4/1/43415261/guide_to_bach_chorales.pdf
youtube.com/watch?v=7Ch1ovsMMnQ
youtube.com/watch?v=UgZ2uPzWwAo


Paul, 

Thanks for that on Steven K.  I thought that it was later. 

__________________
A diamond necklace played the pawn...
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Steven

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Reply with quote  #20 
Thank you for your thoughts and materials.  I will peruse the Guide to Bach's Chorales this weekend.  I could not think of a clever response to the the allusions to Godel so I will say a couple of prosaic things.  Godel proved that a formal arithmetic system with an infinite number of elements and at least one operation contains at least one proof which cannot be proven to be true by the formal arithmetic system alone.  Accordingly, it cannot be proven by such formal arithmetic system alone that such formal arithmetic system is consistent.  These proofs destroyed the hope of some mathematicians to construct mathematics solely as a formal system apart from consciousness.  Brian may never have read anything about Godel but Brian would certainly approve of Godel's proof and purpose, as shown by the phrase "God Only Knows".  Sadly, Godel was more consistent than Brian.  When Brian became paranoid, he ate a lot and stayed in bed.  I guess he wanted to avoid critics and to substitute eating for defending himself against critics; probably his childhood beatings by his father contributed.   When Godel became paranoid, he became concerned that others were trying to poison him and starved himself to death.  And yet, Gödel was one of the smartest human beings who ever lived; a true genius.        
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paul g adsett

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Reply with quote  #21 
 'gödel only knows'
- a catchy title,
if a trifle alpine in lts yodely measure.
i could see julie andrews having a huuuge hit with it.

i wasn't going to mention the starving oneself to death bit,
but, we all have our quirky moments...
cheers
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