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Al Forsyth

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Reply with quote  #16 
Trying to stay away from the bashing of ML.  The touring Beach Boys have certainly improved their sound through the personnel changes.  On Mike, a man who has co-authored some of he most famous American rock-songs ever! Give the man his due.  On doing Cowsill songs - big NO!  I did have the pleasure of hearing and meeting the Cowsills this past winter and they were AMAZING.  Don't put Cowsill songs in with Beach Boys however. 

Waiting to hear Stephanie's review. 

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A diamond necklace played the pawn...
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Lee Marshall

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Reply with quote  #17 
Ya ... I was trying not to bash but still say it as I see it Al.  As for the Cowsills...John's there...part of a well honed and good sounding unit...[tip of the hat to Scott].  All I'm saying is that John deserves some 'props'.  He comes by THAT honestly.  His brother Bill moved up to Canada in the mid 70s and established a solo career and also produced a number of artists

Bill, I believe, was also in line at one juncture to fill in for Brian with the Beach Boys and, as the story goes, Brian talked him out of it.  The point is...the Cowsills were also a talented family and John is more than just some drummer who just came along.
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Jeremy L

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Reply with quote  #18 
      Two of John's big leads used to be "Help Me Rhonda" and "Darlin".  Mike is currently doing lead on "Help Me Rhonda" and Jeff on "Darlin".  Who knows maybe John asked for less leads to focus more on his drumming.  
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Let'sgoaway

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Reply with quote  #19 
"Co-authored some of the greatest songs ever" I don't know and it is bewildering to try to know the actual lyrics he wrote as Mike gives a different account of his involvement every other interview and I suppose by the time the book comes out his claim will be that he wrote the entire Beach Boys catalogue and Brian has ripped him off.

I think a more accurate statement would be that he managed to get his name on some of the greatest written and produced music in pop history.The music mattered so much more than the simpleton lyrics that Mike added to the mostly completed songs.
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Jeremy L

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Reply with quote  #20 

Let'sgoaway,

           Perhaps Brian will provide some insight in his book as to what songs his cousin either totally wrote the lyrics for or at least worked with him on writing the lyrics.    At least for the early days Mike claims to have written most of the lyrics except for the car songs since he didn't know all the technical car terms.   I do think Mike will give Brian credit for the music in his book but he'll also hammer home how he was the Beach Boys' "wordman".    I do find it interesting that Mike worked on the lyrics for Dennis' "Only With You" and "Pacific Ocean Blues".   Mike and Dennis didn't seem too fond of each other by the 70s.   But I guess there were some periods where they got along.

            

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kds

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy L

Let'sgoaway,

           Perhaps Brian will provide some insight in his book as to what songs his cousin either totally wrote the lyrics for or at least worked with him on writing the lyrics.    At least for the early days Mike claims to have written most of the lyrics except for the car songs since he didn't know all the technical car terms.   I do think Mike will give Brian credit for the music in his book but he'll also hammer home how he was the Beach Boys' "wordman".    I do find it interesting that Mike worked on the lyrics for Dennis' "Only With You" and "Pacific Ocean Blues".   Mike and Dennis didn't seem too fond of each other by the 70s.   But I guess there were some periods where they got along.

            



Trying to diminish Mike's contributions to The Beach Boys history is the same kind of revisionist history that Mike is often guilty of.  

Regardless of what you might think about the man personally, he played an important part.  
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Jeremy L

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Reply with quote  #22 
kds,

       You make a valid point.   Brian did have a couple of other collaborators in the early days but most of his collaborations were with Mike.    Also I believe Brian actually paid Mike a compliment in one of his recent interviews where he said Mike was the perfect lyricist for writing about the California lifestyle.   In my opinion the Beach Boys wouldn't have happened without Brian but at the same time you can't say that Mike or the other members played no importance.


         
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Let'sgoaway

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Reply with quote  #23 
If Mike was Brian's "word man" Why did Brian use so many others lyricists?How many songs where Mike was the sole writer charted?Just about every song minus Kokomo that charted has Brian's name on it as the sole or co author including a few with Jan and Dean. Mikes attempts at doing it alone have been a disaster and somehow he is trying to convince people that he was the only guy writing those songs.

How did the greatest album of all time get written without Mike?Would anyone other than Mike think that he was in any way equal to Brian as a song writer?Sleep tight baby.
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Debbie KL

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Reply with quote  #24 
What's so horrible, since I was just thinking about it, is that I think I would have been inclined to be really generous about Mike's contributions.  Seriously.  It would feel so good.  I actually had pleasant experiences with the man personally, for the most part.

But he's been so mean-spirited in his grab for credit for Brian's legitimate work, and can't even give the tiniest generous comment about Brian when so much is due, or even remotely recognize how lucky he was to be cousin to those gifted brothers, it's just plain hard to want to give him even his due, much less all the absurd credit he's demanding.

I'm not kidding.  It makes me really sad.  He could have been so much more and we'd have loved him, even with that nasal thing he has when he sings. And we might have had a vibrant Brother Records introducing Three Dog Night and a much healthier and more creative Brian in the past.

Think about it and weep, if you're a real fan.
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Lee Marshall

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Reply with quote  #25 
Weep indeed.  That 'guy' ...the one who showed up the night of the R'n'R Hall of Fame induction...was the very genie Mike had managed to keep out of public sight most of the time...all those years ago.  Since then, though, the lid on THAT bottle has been left loosely sitting on top and when it gets rubbed even a little that 'guy' sneaks back out to further exercise his lungs and unload a little more of that aged and repetitive old vitriol.   Weep because it happens way, WAY too often.

He could have been so much more and perhaps we all would have loved him...except that he chose a dark side seemingly because he knew and was fully aware and entirely jealous about the fact that the truly creative force really wasn't with him at all.  What a way to ultimately end up...and then...just fade away.

THAT 'guy' has shown time and time again that he's a pretty lousy partner.

Easy to see who the better man is.
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Jeremy L

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Reply with quote  #26 

  Lee,

        I get the impression that for the most part Mike wasn't viewed too negatively by Beach Boys fans prior to the infamous Hall of Fame rant.  Then the lawsuits against his bandmates added fuel to the fire.

         

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kds

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Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Let'sgoaway
If Mike was Brian's "word man" Why did Brian use so many others lyricists?How many songs where Mike was the sole writer charted?Just about every song minus Kokomo that charted has Brian's name on it as the sole or co author including a few with Jan and Dean. Mikes attempts at doing it alone have been a disaster and somehow he is trying to convince people that he was the only guy writing those songs. How did the greatest album of all time get written without Mike?Would anyone other than Mike think that he was in any way equal to Brian as a song writer?Sleep tight baby.


I'm not trying to put Mike...or Dennis, Carl, Al, Bruce...in the same league as Brian.

All I'm saying is that Mike deserves more credit than you seem to be willing to give him. 

I'm not saying Mike is a saint.  But, Brian himself always acts like the bigger man.  I think fans should follow that example.  
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Debbie KL

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Reply with quote  #28 
kds - you're so right about Brian being bigger about all that Mike's done than most of us.  I think he's great about moving on.  I did see his face when all the other band members were making their solo albums, and he wasn't especially happy at the time.  I think the reason should be obvious, in that any solo efforts he made were stopped and made to have the BBs name on them - aside from American Spring - but that was still part of the family stuff and not exactly a threat to the BBs.  And he was making those solo efforts on behalf of Brother Records. I wish they hadn't been so dependent on his talent and fear-motivated at the time, but they were.


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Lee Marshall

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Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy L

  Lee,

        I get the impression that for the most part Mike wasn't viewed too negatively by Beach Boys fans prior to the infamous Hall of Fame rant.  Then the lawsuits against his bandmates added fuel to the fire.

         



I think that many had figured 'it' out long before the Hall disaster Jeremy.  That night the view was spotlighted and widened to include even more onlookers. 

It's just that when I, personally, start to think that maybe, just maybe, that the 'life's too short' concept might actually be making an impression on things...Ol' man Love proves me wrong.  Talk about holding a grudge... ... ...unwarranted as it is.  The guy has it all...MORE...W A Y  M O R E...than he ever deserved and still he cries and snivels like a spoiled child.  What a loser!
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Let'sgoaway

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Reply with quote  #30 
It is not so much that Mike deserves more credit than I am willing to give him but he deserves less credit than Mike is giving himself.

He wants to be remembered as Brian's equal and will try to convince any unsuspecting interviewer with his rhetoric and the more he does it the more foolish he seems.

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