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Patricia R

Posts: 10
Reply with quote  #31 
Hi, I've not been around for a while.

 I hope I'm not too late to vote. As always, another time, another place, and the order may be different.

1.  Lay Down Burden
2.  You Still Believe In Me
3.  This Whole World
4.  Don't Talk, Put Your Head On My Shoulder
5.  Surf's Up
6.  If I Fell
7.  Cabin Essence
8.  Help Me Rhonda
9.  Oxygen To The Brain
10. Ballad Of John And Yoko

Patricia R


Posts: 1,166
Reply with quote  #32 
7. Help

John E, just confirming you meant 'Battle of John and Yoko' here?'  
(The one that didn't qualify for the final battle when it was my selection a few seasons ago!  Can't complain that I got one in, not that that's the aim of the game.) 

Lee Marshall

Posts: 2,378
Reply with quote  #33 
Sometimes I really wonder just WHAT is the aim of the game DAN?  For's to try and use songs which haven't been used or tested before.  [at least not too many times]  Keeps it fresh.  Keeps it real.

As we close in on the last tally in this year's 'ultimate battle' and GRAND 'finally' ... I would like to join the expanding chorus in thanking YOU and Darren for putting in the time and effort each and EVERY week, month and year to keep this botb ball rolling.  [and it IS a ball...all year long]

For me it's a real bonus for the site.  [Even if we're all a little biased about voting for Brian and the 'Boys'...we KNOW that the votes are always well deserved.]  And if there were more Beatles songs available...I truly don't think many of them would change the way I vote.  OUR guys were better singers back when they were all going at it head to head/tooth and nail.  That fact can't be changed.  Vocally...we kicked ass.

p.s...Thanks to Peter for doin' the scheduling.
John E

Posts: 860
Reply with quote  #34 
Mine is now corrected!

t bedford

Avatar / Picture

Posts: 2,004
Reply with quote  #35 
Funny movie (why b/w ??), great soundtrack, good album.

Can I add that United Artists (an American company) did the film on the cheap partially, as Tom said, because they thought the 'mania' would (already) be dwindling, but mostly what they wanted was the USA soundtrack album, on their own UA label, not on the usual (USA) Capitol label. That's where they believed (and rightly so) the real money was. With no home video at the time, a quality film was not necessarily part of the original plan. The hiring of director Richard Lester, and screenwriter Alun Owen were basically lucky picks...that's why it's a good film.

I'm not a real billionaire, but I play one on TV!

Posts: 1,166
Reply with quote  #36 
Lay Down Burden            10
(Love it, but I didn't think I would do this.   The Live at the Roxy version is even better)

Surf’s Up            9
Don’t Talk             8
You Still Believe in Me        7
If I Fell            6
This Whole World        5
Help Me, Rhonda            4
Cabin Essence            3
The Ballad of John and Yoko    2
Oxygen to the Brain        1
Darren J. Ray

Posts: 3,404
Reply with quote  #37 
Thanks very much to the last of the voters - Graciegirl, Cantina, Verden, Paul, John E, Patricia and DAN - for their votes and comments. 

Al, thank you for those clips. That Fendertones (featuring some very familiar faces) one is so impressive.

Cantina, loved it. Wish there was more than the one 'like' button. Your candour and humour always make my day.

Al, it is interesting that that's the way your Week 28 went. Fate, maybe. But, no matter what the opposition, I still think the really popular ones have a way of making it to the pointy end of the season.

Thanks for fixing your votes, John. DAN and I have both noted it. 

Patricia R, well, well, well. Welcome back. The last time you voted was in Season III (Tom's 'dream' Week 22). That's some holiday! Hoping you drop in again SOON. [smile]

Lee, thanks, mate. Yes, as we all know, there is a lot of enjoyment from this game. Personally, I love reading people's stories, hearing new stuff, seeing how others critique obscure tracks I've always loved and, finally, seeing which songs rise to the top from our collective viewpoint.   

Okay, folks. Here come the results....


Darren J. Ray

Posts: 3,404
Reply with quote  #38 

Results from Week 5 of the Play-Offs (Battle of the Golds)...

Hi everyone.

Here are the results from Week 5 of the Play-Offs (the Battle of the Golds):-

GOLD - Surf’s Up (The Beach Boys - 1966 & 1971/2011) (Week 28 - Al Forsyth) (eleven 1st places) - 181

SILVER - Don’t Talk (Put Your Head on My Shoulder) (The Beach Boys - 1966) (Week 40 - Peter Simpson) (one 1st place) - 152

BRONZE - You Still Believe in Me (The Beach Boys - 1966) (Week 14 - Larry Franz) (two 1st places) - 150

4. Lay Down Burden (Brian Wilson - 1998) (Week 42 - Al Forsyth) (three 1st places) - 129

5. If I Fell (The Beatles - 1964) (Week 2 - D.A.N) (two 1st places) - 123  

6. Cabin Essence (The Beach Boys - 1966 & 1968/2011) (Week 37 - Darren J. Ray) (one 1st place) - 122

7. This Whole World (The Beach Boys - 1970) (2016 re-master) (Week 3 - Al Forsyth) (two 1st places) - 121

8. Help Me, Rhonda (The Beach Boys - 1965) (Week 7 - BrianFan) (nil 1st places) - 102

9. The Ballad of John and Yoko (The Beatles - 1969) (Week 8 - Cindy Hood) (nil 1st places) - 79

10. Oxygen to the Brain (Brian Wilson - 2008) (Week 21 - Cantina Margarita) (nil 1st places) - 51

Thanks to everyone who took the time to vote. 

We had 22 voters for the week.  

Special thanks again to DAN for scrutinising the votes this week and throughout the play-offs.

Congratulations to Al, Pete and Larry who selected the medal winners in their original weeks. 

This is the first time that Al has selected the winning song of the year; the first male host to do so. 

Well done, Al.

‘Surf’s Up’ is the Gold winner for Season VII, joining ‘Good Vibrations’, ‘God Only Knows’, ‘Wouldn’t It Be Nice’, ‘Surfer Girl’, ‘I Get Around’ and ‘Don’t Worry Baby’ in the BOTB Hall of Fame, and is hence retired from competition.

It was the second time around for ‘Surf’s Up’. In Season II, the Surf’s Up version came 2nd overall (Season Silver), 32 points shy of ‘God Only Knows’.

‘Don’t Talk (Put Your Head on My Shoulder)’ now joins ‘The Warmth of the Sun’ as twice runner-up in a season (Season Silver).

It also came 2nd place last year in Season VI. (‘Warmth' was runner-up in Seasons I and V.)

It also ended 5th in the Preliminary Final in Season I.

It was the second time around for ‘You Still Believe in Me’. It won Gold in Week 9 of Season IV (Verden McCutcheon) and just missed play-offs.


Four of the remaining seven tracks had Battle history.

After three previous attempts (all Golds but no play-offs), ‘Lay Down Burden’ finishes 4th. It’s the highest finish ever for a Brian solo track, quite ahead of ‘Your Imagination’, ‘Love and Mercy’ (both 8th places) and ‘Oxygen to the Brain’ (10th).  

It was the second time for ‘If I Fell’. Its 5th mirrors its 5th in the Season V Gold Play-Off.

It was the second time around for ‘This Whole World’. Its 7th compares with its 5th in the Season II Gold Play-Off.

‘The Ballad of John and Yoko’ was previously used in Season I, when it won Silver in Week 21 (Domestic Animal Noises), beaten by three points by ‘California Saga: California’, which finished 10th in last week’s Preliminary Final. Neither song made play-offs that first year. 

The two Pet Sounds tracks, ‘Don’t Talk…’ and ‘You Still Believe in Me’ have had an interesting tussle this past fortnight.

Last week, in the Preliminary Final, ‘You Still Believe in Me’ finished two points ahead of ‘Don’t Talk…’.

This week, positions were reversed with ‘Don’t Talk….’ finishing two points ahead.

Of the same 21 voters who voted in both weeks, three changed their preference of the two. This time, one voter preferred ‘You Still Believe in Me’, whilst two voters preferred ‘Don’t Talk…’.  

‘Surf’s Up’ led from voter #3 and was never headed.

14 of the 22 voters placed it in their top two.

Its only placings outside the Top 5 were two 6th places (from Patricia R and yours truly) and two 8th places (from Pete and Graciegirl).  

It is a mild polariser, as is ‘Heroes and Villains’, which has featured – both the Smiley Smile and Smile Sessions versions – in three play-offs (two Golds and a Preliminary) and each time attained more 1st votes than songs that finished above it, ie, some other voters give it a low rating.

The other SMiLE song, ‘Cabin Essence’, is another example. Six voters put it in their Top 3. Seven voters put it in their bottom 3.

Beyond that, the main polariser was, probably to be expected, ‘The Ballad of John and Yoko’. 18 of the 22 voters had ‘Ballad….’ in either their Top 3 (four) or bottom 3 (fourteen).  

The only songs to not receive a 10th place were ‘Surf’s Up’, ‘You Still Believe in Me’, ‘Lay Down Burden’ and ‘Cabin Essence’.

Only two songs received multiple 10th places – ‘Oxygen to the Brain’ (twelve) and ‘The Ballad of John and Yoko’ (four).

‘Oxygen to the Brain’ was the only song to not be in anyone’s Top 3. ‘Oxygen...’ and ‘Help Me, Rhonda’ were the only songs to not be in anyone’s Top 2. ‘Rhonda’ received three 3rd places.

So, that’s it for another season.

We’ve now been running this weekly competition for a full seven years!

We now break for a fortnight before Season VIII kicks off on Monday, February 20th.

Pete will shortly be posting a schedule, inviting hosts to jump on board. Hoping you’ll participate.

In the meantime, I will update and post a new ‘Battle Guidelines…’ which will acknowledge our new retiree.

Incidentally, if anyone has any questions, ideas or concerns about the Battle, please feel free to raise them here.

Copyright bans on clips remains a major issue.

I’d like to again say thank you to our ‘team’ of voters who have almost weekly helped clear clips in their respective countries before hosts have been given the green light to post their final selections.

These people have regularly included Lisa, t, David, Paul, John Potter, John E, bonnie, Cantina and others.

Thank you very much, and thanks to the hosts who have been party to this.    

Please remember, because a clip may work for a host in the US, doesn’t necessarily mean it can be viewed in Canada, the UK, Australia, Germany or anywhere else. And vice-versa.

To avoid three-cornered contests that have the potential to catapult songs into play-offs (because part of the world cannot evaluate one of the songs), I strongly encourage upcoming hosts to contact me (or anyone) privately with a bunch of clips and we can run them by a blueboarder from each of those countries to ensure their future week has no restrictions.

It was good to see there were no double-ups on songs this past year. Thanks, everyone.

However, we are also yet to establish whether cover versions of retirees can be used. Tom seems the only person who has voiced an opinion on this in the past. What does everyone else think?

Thank you all for allowing me to conduct the play-offs again and for supporting it.

All finalists were totally based on the figures from the weekly battles. (If anyone isn’t sure how they work, check out the Battle Guidelines post, halfway down page 3 of this forum, but soon to be updated.)

I tried to keep the system transparent though, at the same time, endeavoured to build the suspense.

Every host should feel free to query me as to where their selections finished up. It’s your right.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to host and, indeed, everyone who voted throughout the year. Without your great support, we obviously wouldn’t have a game.

We had 17 different hosts in 2016, 16 of whom had at least one of their selections make play-offs. (Lee, your one week of Christmas songs was always going to make it tough.)

Cindy and yours truly had the most appearances in the play-offs with seven nominees each. Larry had six. 

32 of the 44 weeks spawned play-off contestants, 12 of which had multiple entries. The most from any week was three from Cindy’s Week 18.

30 different Blueboarders voted during the year, 11 of whom participated in all 49 weeks of competition (see list below). 

49 – Al Forsyth, Lee Marshall, kds, D.A.N, Lisa G/TS, David W, Peter Simpson, Graciegirl, Darren J. Ray
48 – bonnie bella*, Tom Tobben
47 – Deb#1
44 – t Bedford*
43 – Larry Franz (includes five as Professor Dewey)
42 – Cindy Hood
39 – Verden McCutcheon
38 – John B
37 – paul g adsett
33 – Popeye (not the sailor)
29 – Cantina Margarita
26 – John E
11 – NotJermia
  6 – MaryNYS
  5 – BrianFan
  3 – Gentizzy, Mr Ferm
  1 – Ney Garm, thorgil, stkilda4ever, Patricia R

* bonnie bella abstained from voting in her Week 27; t Bedford abstained from voting in the five weeks he hosted

The most supported week was Week 21 (Cantina Margarita) with 23 voters.

The least supported weeks were the Christmas ones, Weeks 44 (Cindy Hood) and 45 (Deb#1) with just 15 voters each.

Many thanks to Pete Simpson for organising the roster of hosts and to DAN for always being there when we need a scrutineer, throughout the year and especially during the play-offs.  

And, of course, thanks to the great Brian Wilson and Michael DeMartin (Admin) for allowing us our own forum on this wonderful board.

Before next season kicks off, I shall update all the results from the year.

We ask that all future hosts recognise the seven ‘retirees’, and please continue to refrain from using a recording that has already been used in the same season.

Beyond that, all other songs are fair game, whether they’ve been used in previous seasons or not.

Looking forward to Season VIII.

This season is now closed. 

Tom Tobben

Posts: 1,148
Reply with quote  #39 
Darren, thank you most sincerely for all the time and effort you have put in each year, especially during the year-end playoffs, to make our BOTBs the enjoyable and informed musical competition, and the weekly/annual celebration of the music of Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys, that we have all shared together over the past seven years, and now heading into Season 8. Your attention to the details, history, statistics, and guidelines of the BOTBs goes way above and beyond. We all owe you a big debt of appreciation! Thank you!

I'm looking forward to what new and enjoyable musical delights and insights everyone here will bring to our weekly battles in Season 8!
Tom Tobben

Posts: 1,148
Reply with quote  #40 
It's so exciting to see that "Surf's Up" was our BIG, landslide winner for this past season.

Its victory, and the numerous related video clips and comments this past week, reminded me of an old in-depth post about "Surf's Up" that I originally wrote here on Brian's old "blueboard" way back in 2003, over 13 years ago, and which still seems to hold up pretty well. And, it seems to me, its ultimate optimistic vision of hope in what is perhaps a dark and threatening world of 2017, is more relevant than ever. For those who may be interested, here it is once again:

Songs of Innocence and of Experience -- William Blake and Brian Wilson, and the significance of "Surf's Up"

(posted to the “blueboard” at the website by Tom Tobben on November 9, 2003, and updated April 2, 2011)


I found it quite informative to compare the contrasting visions and imagery of William Blake's famous poems (written in England in the late 1700s) in "Songs of Innocence and of Experience" with the visions and imagery of Brian Wilson in his music.  

In Blake's "Songs of Innocence", this famous British Romantic poet's poems and characters show a positive condition of mind and spirit, and a freshness of perspective that reflect an optimistic innocence and often childlike perspective. Even though there may be harsh or negative factors in the world around them, the youthful characters retain a spiritual resilience, a joy and contentment and can dream of a better world. By contrast, in his "Songs of Experience", we see much more of the negative forces and images that illustrate our fallen condition in an imperfect and often evil world. Compare, for example, the poems "The Lamb" (in "Songs of Innocence") and "The Tyger" (in "Songs of Experience"), or the two contrasting versions of "The Chimney Sweeper". Yet, despite the evil and dark imagery in the world of Experience, there are still glimmers of hope for the positive. In Blake's world, both perspectives are valid, and people can shift from state to state based on their particular perspectives about life at different times. (For more information and the poems themselves, see "Blake's Poetry and Designs", edited by Mary Lynn Johnson and John E. Grant, Norton Critical Editions.)

Likewise, with Brian's most heartfelt music, we see clear examples of his own songs of "innocence" and "experience". Some of Brian's best songs offer a childlike, innocent perspective and a positive, platonic, or romantic view of life and people (e.g., Surfer Girl, Girls on the Beach, God Only Knows, Our Prayer (wordless inspired spirituality), Surfin’ USA, All Summer Long, Meant for You, Funky Pretty, Fun Fun Fun, Wouldn't It Be Nice, Good Vibrations, Wake the World, Time to Get Alone, Good Kind of Love, Southern California, and so many more of Brian's upbeat and inspirational songs).  

By contrast, Brian's songs of "experience" show us that life is quite complex and often very difficult, trying to cope with negative forces that impact us and can make life a real struggle or even seem futile  (e.g., I Just Wasn't Made for These Times, 'Til I Die, The Warmth of the Sun, This Whole World, Lay Down Burden, A Day in the Life of a Tree, Sail on Sailor, Hang on to Your Ego,  Love and Mercy, Soul Searchin', Midnight's Another Day, and others).  

To me, Brian's ultimate vision of the duality of innocence and experience in life is most exquisitely expressed in his and Van Dyke Parks' musical and poetic masterpiece, "Surf's Up”. In that song, we see most of the lyrics saturated with negative imagery about the difficulties of life and a deeply flawed world ("blind class aristocracy . . . the pit and the pendulum . . . columnated ruins . . . the music all is lost for now . . . the laughs come hard . . . adieu or die . . . " and finally the most telling lines "A choke of grief, hard-heartened I, beyond belief, a broken man too tough to cry.")

After pummeling us with this endless barrage of negative imagery (and the reinforcing melancholy melody and instrumentation) about the difficulties of life and the imperfections of human society, Brian finishes the song by offering us a final, compelling, and majestic vision of innocence, optimism, and spiritual rebirth that ultimately offers us hope ("Surf's up, aboard a tidal wave, come about hard and join the young and often spring you gave. I heard the word, wonderful thing, a children's song...their song is love and the children know the way".)

In the end of the song, this vision of innocence, hope, and spiritual rebirth wins out and carries the song to its majestic, uplifting climax with the resounding repeated choruses of "The child is father of the man." Borrowing this famous line from the British Romantic poet William Wordsworth  (in his well-known poem "My Heart Leaps Up"), Brian provides us his ultimate vision of innocence and hope, and that this vision can carry us through the many difficulties that the experiences of life throw our ways.

Yes, Brian is a truly inspired musician and artist, just as Blake and Wordsworth were as British Romantic poets two centuries ago, and he offers us a similar, ultimately positively affirming vision of life and its meaning. Thank you very much, Mr. Wilson, for sharing your music and your vision with us!

Cindy Hood

Avatar / Picture

Posts: 1,517
Reply with quote  #41 
A great big congratulations to Al Forsyth, Pete Simpson and Larry Franz for your medal wins and to Surf's Up for winning the gold, our newest retiree song to the Battle of the Bands!

I am very surprised to see though, that Help Me, Rhonda didn't get one of those medals.

Thank you Darren, DAN, David and any others for your assistance in picking the videos that work all over the globe for the weekly battle entries.  Also, a big thanks to Darren for all the hard work you do continuously with all of your flawless statistical info and work.  

Another season is now over and on to Season 8.  

Pete, I really need the first week if you could put me on there.  

"They're not gonna catch us. We're on a mission from God".
Patricia R

Posts: 10
Reply with quote  #42 
Darren, thank you for all the work analysing the results, interesting.  I must join in again next battle year.  Thanks to everyone else who helps.

Patricia R


Avatar / Picture

Posts: 1,873
Reply with quote  #43 
I'll add my thanks to all who put their time and effort into the BOTBs. Without you it would fall apart.
I didn't realize how big an issue it is with trying to get videos to play in all the various international markets. I'll be paying a little more attention in that regard. I'm usually still tweaking my battle post right up to Sunday night, leaving little time to prescreen. Darren has done a good job substituting an alternative video.
I'll go with whatever is decided regarding covers of retired gold winners.
Also, kds seems to vote regularly. Should he be in your participants list?
Thanks again...

ETA: I now see kds up there in the first 'voted every week' mention. New glasses may be in order for me.

What the world needs now is love, sweet love
It's the only thing that there's just too little of
What the world needs now is love, sweet love,
No, not just for some but for everyone.”

Al Forsyth

Posts: 3,489
Reply with quote  #44 
Congratulations to Darren, for yet another season of success!  What you do is incredible and ALL of the stat keeping and data - wow!  And my shattering the blue-glass ceiling - whoa - let's keep it going guys AND gals.  It's a grand distraction here, but in the end the voters always come through.  I really thought as well, Cindy, that Rhonda would do something.  Cindy has to have retired the most songs in this competition over the years.   

Thanks to Cindy and Tom for acknowledgement and return of the Surf's Up essay.  It's one brilliant song with a vocal beyond compare.  Glad to see it retire in style!

My only question to Darren and group is if we HAVE to continue with videos if "some" videos are not available?  Can it be a sound clip only?  We are evaluating a song after all, and NOT a video.  There has to be an alternative to the video only option.  Example - sound format this week. 

All best with the battles and battlers to come. 

A diamond necklace played the pawn...
Lisa G/TS

Posts: 803
Reply with quote  #45 
A hearty tip of the toque (pronounced "two-ook", translation: wool hat, see Mike Nesmith:1960s) to Messrs. Forsyth, Simpson and Franz for their podium placements. 

Plus, kudos again to Darren, Pete, D.A.N. for their organizing,moderating and verification skills throughout the battles, as well as all who participate. Well done!   [thumb]
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