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kds

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Reply with quote  #31 
That is your opinion, and you're 100% entitled to it.  

But here's some food for thought.  I've noticed that your posts use a lot of labels ie. "the hippies."  These kinds of labels made it necessary for The Beach Boys to seek new management since most people couldn't, or refused to, shake the image of the five guys in striped shirts singing about surfing and girls.  More or less, the Boys gave in to that stereotype, and their creativity suffered for it.  

IMHO, post Holland, the solo releases of Dennis and Brian were more consistent than any album with The Beach Boys name (with the possible exception of TWGMTR).  
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John B

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Reply with quote  #32 
Actually, I think if you asked Van Dyke Parks, he would say that they behaved wishy-washy on the subject--as they still essentially do, to this day. 

Maybe I would be more forgiving to the hippies but they still keep Jan & Dean and Lesley Gore out of the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame.  Maybe my protest is futile, but until this is rectified, I will continue insulting the hippies.

Your last opinion kds is accurate--if you consider 'Love You' (original title : 'Brian Loves You') as a Brian solo album.   
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kds

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Reply with quote  #33 
I know it was originally considered as a BW solo album, but I do consider Love You as an album by The Beach Boys.  And its a polarizing album.  Some love it.  Some not so much.  I'm in the not so much category.  

 
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John B

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Reply with quote  #34 
Brian's singing was better the more time went by without smoking.  How he got his harmonies so clean for 'Night was so Young's' falsetto parts, I'll never know...  Still, you gotta admit, if Randy Newman had made that album, how many times would we have heard 'genius' and 'certain grammy nom'?  I think it was like 'Jo Jo Dancer' for Richard Pryor.  Brian felt he made something honest no matter what anyone criticized.  You make your own interpretation.  Did he want to pay tribute to his daughters and tell them he loved them?  or was he defeating his own child abuse?  or was it both?
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kds

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Reply with quote  #35 
Can't really comment on Randy Newman as I'm not a fan of his work.  

As for Love You, I don't think it's a bad album.  At times, it's quite good.  Like the song you mentioned, The Night Was So Young.  But, I think the lowlights outnumber the highlights.    
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John B

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Reply with quote  #36 
You know for the religious fan (you still there, Captain Dean?), there is a genuinely religious line in 'Airplane': "I need God as my guide."

But again, wishing you could be safe on the ground from a plane is rather like praying in a foxhole... 

Dennis sings "I Want to Pick You Up" better than Alex Chilton did!  You get 'Mona' which is another good vocal.  Al gets 'Good Time' AND 'Honkin Down the Highway.'  Mike gets 'Johnnie Carson' .  There's 'Roller Skaing Child'. !   Brian even sings a love song to Marilyn, 'Let's Put Our Hearts Together.'  What's not to like?   I know, to each his own, I accept not everyone likes this album as much as I do.  It is out there, to me, in a good way.
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kds

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Reply with quote  #37 
On the Smiley Smile scale, I gave it a three out of five.  

To me, it's doesn't come close to measuring up to the material The Beach Boys did from 1962-1973.  And I also don't think it's as good as most of the stuff that Brian would write later (I'm including TWGMTR here).  

Although I'll gladly take Love You over 15 Big Ones, KTSA, 1985, and Summer in Paradise.  So, I guess that makes it my 25th favorite Beach Boys studio album.  
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thorgil

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Reply with quote  #38 
kds, them's fightin' words!
Just kiddin'. [smile]
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John B

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Reply with quote  #39 
Usually when some Beach Boys fanatic such as yourself, kds, down-grades 'Love You', they do it on perceived Carl's creative leadership disrespect... something like that?   Carl sings on this record about subjects he did not find personally uh important (?) or self-referential as he did the Rieley alliteration ones about jeweled crowns and feel flowing.  ?   Carl, most adult of the 3 we were constantly told during those years, felt the lyrics on 'Love You' to be juvenile and embarrassing.   He was 'heavy' you see, in more than the obvious way.   He was soulful, too, like soul music, which uh, did not seem to have anything to do with 'Love You.'   In short, Carl did not get 'Love You' or 'Brian Loves You' and would probably have preferred more songs that boogied like Bachman Turner Overdrive or Michael McDonald, you know, real 70's white soul men like uh, he wanted to be.
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kds

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Reply with quote  #40 
Honestly, my opinion of the Love You album has nothing to do with what Carl said about it.  Quite frankly, Carl wasn't bringing a lot to the table during these years either.  (Speaking of BTO, I think Carl's collaboration with Randy Bachman on the title track to KTSA is dreadful).  I don't think the arrangements of the songs are that good, and I think overall the tunes/melodies are pretty weak.  

I pretty much feel the same way about a good portion of Gettin In Over My Head.  


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back home

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Reply with quote  #41 
Enjoying the Rieley debate and chuckling over the "hippie" references, which certainly ring true to anyone in high school and college during the early '70s. I have no doubt that Jack Rieley pushed the Beach Boys out into areas they hadn't been before; i.e. matters of social consciousness, which were important at the time. Those were not happy times in the country. I am ambivalent about his overall contributions to the music, however. I thought So Tough, with its harder edge and few number of tracks, was something of a jarring product. I still love Holland, but there was, to me, a lot of weird music on Surf's Up (I'm sorry, but Day in the Life of a Tree remains too "out there" for me). But there is no doubt that the Beach Boys were making their way back in that time period. The only question I have is whether it was actually James William Guercio, and not Rieley, who really got the band back in the forefront as a touring operation and was ultimately responsible for the 1974 awards. I carry no water for the guy, but I always understood it was much more him and much less Rieley, who impressed me more as an eccentric character and less as a serious manager. In my recollection, Guercio had them well positioned (whether by design or just sheer luck) to ride the nostalgia wave which hit at the perfect time for the group.
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John B

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Reply with quote  #42 
...and better still, didn't Guercio have Caribou ranch?  That was probably getting you back to the land better than Rieley was... and for the less obtunded, there was good skiing nearby too.  So, win-win ! 
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Lee Marshall

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Reply with quote  #43 
It was about doin' IT live.  Before Jack...not so much.  It was faltering and failing.  During 'Jack' credibility was re-established and being aware of the era at hand didn't hurt.  [Surf's Up Carl, Holland]  THANKS TO the guidance of Jack Rielly the Beach Boys became one of the very best LIVE acts in the world.  It got them well over and beyond the hump of having nothing much valid to contribute to the musical conversation, single or album wise,

Yes '*WE*' thick and thin FANS 'got' it.  The general public not so much.  What kept the group floating into the future?  Not Pet Sounds.  Not Good Vibrations.  Not anything nearly as much as serving it ALL up live in concert.  Jack did that for them and for us.  [and for now]  Gary and the Spoonful?  They had nothing to carry them forward.  But you know better.  Your guess is far more relevant than what really happened.  So you just go with that 'B'.

Maybe Kokomo was more important than I thought.  [Guercio was Johnny come lately.  They'd already peaked LIVE before he showed up.]
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Debbie KL

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Reply with quote  #44 
Lee, I think Brian's creative output and reputation as a musical genius had a whole lot to do with the group's staying afloat, including selling concert tickets over the years.  And then there are the record contracts (and the new movie) that one would have to assume are based on Brian's reputation as a composer/arranger/performer/producer.

Well, and then there's the whole thing of what would they perform live without Brian's work?  It would be a very thin show without his contribution.  Even if you COULD put together a show with just the others' compositions, they all have Brian's influence, so there ya go...No Brian, no Beach Boys...
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John B

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Reply with quote  #45 
I know, what you said at the end, but it was still fun to reminisce about Caribou Ranch.

I have watched older films though, and the group performed well.  One was the T.A.M.I. show and one is now called 'The Lost Concert' I believe.  In both cases, you had the original 5 'boys' playing and singing live, and well. 

But although I said this before, I think it bears repeating again.  The group were far from having nothing much valid to contribute during those days.  Good and even great songs were being written and even recorded, they were just not deemed hippie friendly enough to come out under Jack.  Haven't you noticed how every decade or so--maybe more often, Capitol puts together a box set costing about 100$ and it will include a bunch of 'new' songs but it won't include all of them, you'll have to get out your Sherlock Holmes magnifying glass and go to YouTube for that.  It is my sincere opinion that rather than making the group more hippy friendly in concert for a handful of years in the drugged out 70's, Jack might have ensured that those very good to even great songs came out (such as 'River Song,' 'I Just Got My pay,' 'Good Time,' 'Holy Man,' 'Califrornia Feelin,' 'San Miguel,' and so forth).  Seriously, there really are a lot of these songs...

Gary Puckett at his best does not deserve the flattery of being included in this comparison, nor should Sabastian, although he's better than Puckett.  Geez.  I should not be insulted to point this out.
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