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kds

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Reply with quote  #46 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John B
hmmm.  a disputed outcome.  How can we resolve this?

okay, I got an idea. 

Let's ask the creator, Mr. Brian Wilson, how does he judge "Love You".  Does he believe that he communicated his thoughts and emotions and musical ideas successfully ?  Did the end result match up well with his envisioned concept and efforts?  How well?  Would he place this album way up high among his releases or way down low? 

I'll go with what Brian thinks.

and those who oppose him?   They're smarter than a genius? 

yeah...good luck with that. 


Soooo, by that logic, because Brian loves the Love You album, we all should, and we're lesser fans if we don't?

I respect your passion, John, but I think that's bunk.  


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John B

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Reply with quote  #47 
where's the disagree button? 

you know, kds, it was more than just 'not my cup of tea'.  there were all those insults about the kiddie lyrics and so forth.  But a genius indisputably wrote them, right?   I mean, am I right or am I right?
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bugs

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Reply with quote  #48 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Marshall
....
I ain't gonna get hoodwinked into accepting quotes from the days when Brian answered questions to either try and provide you with what he thought you wanted to hear or, more often than not, to merely make you go away.
Why not Lee?  Mike Love thinks it worked for him throughout his book...I mean, ALL THROUGH the book.
But now I've gone set us up another 3+ pages worth of creative discussion.  Sorry Bonnie! [wave]

__________________

β€œLike a dream that's somehow linked to all the stars above." 🌟 🌟 
-Brian Wilson, 1976
                        

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Lee Marshall

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Reply with quote  #49 
Selective quotations ONLY, no doubt, were used by The "Nourishment and Revenge" Man eh bugs?  "We need to grow and move on" didn't make it?  

Meanwhile... ... ...Don't ever leave us.  Tell us we're doin' alright.  Look out page 4 'cause ... here comes/here comes page 5.
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Cretanwelsh

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Reply with quote  #50 
Prompted by Friday's discussion, I put Love You on in the car yesterday (this is what's great about talking about music), then spent a couple of hours listening to the demos and alternative mixes and versions floating about cyberspace when I got back.

Are we really going to have to wait until 2027 for Love You's Sunshine Tomorrow?

Of course it doesn't boast the grand productions and gorgeous vocal harmonies of the sixties work but, honestly, listen to the demos if you doubt it compositionally.

This is Brian Wilson warts and all, painted on large canvas, as he has never given of himself since.

As he says in his recent book

'There's no way around it. My story is a music story and a family story and a love story, but it's a story of mental illness, too'

Discomforting at times? True, but we shouldn't reject the truth because it's uncomfortable. That's what makes Love You so moving -just as moving as Pet Sounds, if less universal.

How can something this bizarre and funny also be so deep? It's called genius!
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kds

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Reply with quote  #51 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John B
where's the disagree button? 

you know, kds, it was more than just 'not my cup of tea'.  there were all those insults about the kiddie lyrics and so forth.  But a genius indisputably wrote them, right?   I mean, am I right or am I right?


I'm not disputing Brian's genius, but even geniuses can have some not so genius moments, especially when one's career is spread out over more than half a century. 
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Lee Marshall

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Reply with quote  #52 
Here's a recent observation from Brian Wilson...re:  the current Pet Sounds tour and the setlist which includes nary a song from 'Love You'...

"But beyond playing all 13 tracks from that celebrated record, Wilson has enjoyed the opportunity to trot out more than two dozen of his most cherished songs. He is adamant that every song he would ever want to play for audiences is on the setlist."

Guess THAT settles it John B.[nono]
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Cretanwelsh

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Reply with quote  #53 
To construe this as Brian Wilson's final word on the value of Love You seems a little desperate, Lee.

Have you read what he directly says about it in his book?- in his own plain-spoken, candid way.

We had all this a few months back when you claimed his never playing it live showed how he really viewed it. Then better-informed posters pointed out that he had indeed played songs from it including Honkin Down theHighway earlier in the Pet Sounds tour. And lo and behold a few nights later he performed The Night was So Young! You didn't have the grace even to acknowledge it.

You just don't like the record; there's no need to say more.

I realise you we're responding to John B's point' but in any case, the idea that the artist is the ultimate arbiter of the value of their own work is nonsensical. Most would love it if they were, no doubt!
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Lee Marshall

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Reply with quote  #54 
I know.  I know.  It was posted somewhat tongue in cheek.  That's all I've got...and I figured John B could use a poke in the ribs.
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John B

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Reply with quote  #55 
Nonsensical?

well, I never!

naw, really, maybe my modest proposal was intended tongue in cheek, but I would question that adjective being used as an absolute to describe an artist's self-criticism of his own work.

The artist more than anymore should know what he was trying to say and how well he believes he communicated it as intended.  Why say an artist's own critique is non-sense?  Is Cretan Welsh finally outing herself as a rock critic?  
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Cretanwelsh

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Reply with quote  #56 
Sorry John, that 'nonsensical' was too much.

You were the target of some genial trolling from Lee & I got caught in the crossfire!
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Lee Marshall

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Reply with quote  #57 
Ya...This specific locale is perhaps a little more easy going and friendly than some of the others as they pertain to Brian and the Boys.  This one is more of a neighbourhood.
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kds

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Reply with quote  #58 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cretanwelsh
Sorry John, that 'nonsensical' was too much. You were the target of some genial trolling from Lee & I got caught in the crossfire!


"Genial trolling."  

I think BW would approve of that term. 
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John B

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Reply with quote  #59 
anyway, a poke in the ribs is fine, Lee.  I useta play football.  

but, I respectfully dissent to the conventional wisdom that the lyrics on 'Love You' are so childish and bad, while Lee & kds would never dream of criticizing the (to my ears) useless lyrics of ...Styx, Journey, REO Speedwagon, Foreigner, Head East, Triumph, Bad Company, Toto, Rush, Deep Purple, AC/CD, Van Halen, Phil Collins, Genesis, Yes, Moody Blues, Super Tramp, etc.

Genius implies superiority over conventional context doesn't?  well, I think it does.

I just pulled up Billboard's Top 100 singles of 1977.  You guys really don't remember how awful it was.  I mean, I'm generally of the cloth that says the 80's music was the most terrible the world has ever seen.  and you guys like to say how terrible music is today.  But, please consider, these were the best-selling songs--which were all over the radio in 1977:

Rod Stewart (no, not the every picture tells a story Rod, not by a longshot...), Andy Gibb---he wanted to be your everything, that was #2 all year, then the Emotions, Barbra Streisand, Hot, Kenny Nolan, Thelma Houston, Rita Coolidge, Alan O'Day, Mary Macgregor (I am going in order from the top, folks!), KC & the Sunshine Band, ABBA, Leo Sayer (he ruled! multiple hits), Jimmy Buffet, then at #15, Telephone Line by ELO, how did a song THAT good sneak in??, then back to crap: Pablo Cruise, Eagles, Bill Conti, Hall & Oates, Leo Sayer again, Rose Royce, Marilyn McCoo & Billy Davis Jr., David Soul, Stephen Bishop, Foreigner (horns of the devil, kds!), Climax Blues Band, Barry Manilow, Ronnie Milsap, Sanford Townsend Band, Foreigner again, Dean Friedman, Bread, Meco, The Floaters, a Jeans commercial, Boz Scaggs (yes, another really good song, Lido Shuffle), KC & Sunshine again, Supertramp, Shaun Cassidy, Bee Gees (so much worse songs by then), The Spinners, The Sylvers, Kenny Nolan again, Rose Royce again, Queen, Captain & Tennile, Al Stewart, Aerosmith, Heatwave, Go Your Own Way (is that 3 or 4 songs that didn't suq? by Fleetwood Mac), Elton John, BJ Thomas, ABBA again, Leo Sayer--AGAIN!, theme from Star Wars, and CJ & Company.

Yet, out of all this CR** in 1977, it was Brian's lyrics that were suspect.

F-U. (ha). 

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kds

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Reply with quote  #60 
The lyrics of Love You don't really bug me so much.  After all, we're talking about a band who wrote an iconic song about a trip to the hamburger stand. 

Like I've said many many times before, I just don't think the album is very good musically.  

But, to each their own.  

And, honestly, I'll take the worst of the worst in 1977 over some of the crap today.  
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